Curse

Gun Pierson · Dec 03, 2009, 12:12 PM // 12:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by isildorbiafra

Mastering UWSC takes no more than 1 day of practice. Its not rocket science; hence all scrubs use it! Imo your giving it to much credit; or perhaps your just lacking in ability manneke pis.

I wasn't talking about myself. If you know it takes only 1 day to master it, it means you used it, making you a scrub yourself kaaskop. If you've heard that it only takes 1 day, then you just don't know. Some might learn it in a day, others might need weeks, and some just can't. It depends on the person.

I think you give the playerbase too much credit. You make it sound like the average joe just needs to put this spell on his bar, watch a video and test it for a day and he can do UWSC. No way man.

Yes Bryant I hear you, but I was counterargumenting two things:
1) 'SF is godmode', which technically it is not
2) 'SF needs no skill', which is not true as it needs some skill and knowledge about the game.

At this point I'm not for or against the SF nerf, but at least people on both sides should come with good arguments so we get to see the bigger picture.

manitoba1073 · Dec 03, 2009, 12:45 PM // 12:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

No , you just made false assumptions about me wanting a nerf or me hating SF when i do use it , wich is absurd .

My exagerations ? oh cut the BS please. Stats and Facts :
-Enchantments = 246 , SF is only ONE of them
-Skills that remove in some way enchantments = 36 ( less than 20% of em )
-Skills that CAN remove SF = 10
-Skills that CAN remove SF unconditionally of the 10 above = 4
-Interrupting skills/signets to break the combo = 4 ( all mesmers signets )
-Monster skills .... about 2-4 ? and most of them can be avoided with a cover enchant.

So being optimistic we have 18 skills in the game that are able to break SF combo or remove SF once its on ..... and now you say that number is about 30% ? . Lets add traps or untargeted spells because they "affect" in some way SF users ..... ok , maybe they are 30 ? 40 ?.
There are 468 spells in this game ( not counting attack skills , signets bla bla ) ... and skills that work/break SF combo are LESS than 10% of them. Now i ask you , PLEASE enlighten us , from where does your 30% come from ? i explained my % , now its your turn.

Oh yeah , still waiting for your explanations . Now that you are into it , please tell us wich are they and how they succesfully counter SF sins to do all their stuff .....

oh wait ... guess not

[/QUOTE]

Lets exlude a majority of things that effect SF to try to prove your point LMAO.

Yes signets do, as do all traps , and numerous PBAOEs, Several Monster skills als and area of effects do also, Sure you really want me to put that number down. LMAO go learn your skills ingame better, before trying to claim your BS.

But Ill have the exact number of skills in game for you soon.

zwei2stein · Dec 03, 2009, 01:05 PM // 13:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

Yes signets do, as do all traps , and numerous PBAOEs, Several Monster skills als and area of effects do also, Sure you really want me to put that number down. LMAO go learn your skills ingame better, before trying to claim your BS.

But Ill have the exact number of skills in game for you soon.

Are you serious?

Traps are not issue for perma, neither are PBAOEs.

UW features both of them. Yeah, you are totally right, charged blackness shocks permaes to death, they die in mountains traps and smite aoe owns them. Riiiiight.

Just because skill can affect perma does not mean it will actually work.

Bryant Again · Dec 03, 2009, 01:49 PM // 13:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

Yes Bryant I hear you, but I was counterargumenting two things:
1) 'SF is godmode', which technically it is not
2) 'SF needs no skill', which is not true as it needs some skill and knowledge about the game.

At this point I'm not for or against the SF nerf, but at least people on both sides should come with good arguments so we get to see the bigger picture.

Don't worry, Gun, I agree completely with your posts in this thread. Just hoping to help out a bit as well.

Tenebrae · Dec 03, 2009, 02:25 PM // 14:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

Lets exlude a majority of things that dont effect SF to try to prove my point LMAO.

Fixed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

Yes signets do, as do all traps , and numerous PBAOEs, Several Monster skills als and area of effects do also, Sure you really want me to put that number down. LMAO go learn your skills ingame better, before trying to claim your BS.

But Ill have the exact number of skills in game for you soon.

Yeah and those are about 30% of the offensive skills in GW sure . Wait , someone threw your cheap words down better than me

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Are you serious?
Traps are not issue for perma, neither are PBAOEs.
UW features both of them. Yeah, you are totally right, charged blackness shocks permaes to death, they die in mountains traps and smite aoe owns them. Riiiiight.

Just because skill can affect perma does not mean it will actually work.

If you take his posts as a joke , they actually are a little fun. Otherwise .... no , it cant be serious. I can sense his fear , he stopped throwing random % .... i would like to see his face when he counts skills ( yea , sure he is doing it lol ) and see that he is not even close.

Reflect · Dec 03, 2009, 04:04 PM // 16:04

oh yeah..SF is so hard to use.I'm sorry..It should be even buffed man..its nearly impossible to use, I dont even understand how u guys succeed doing it..

Well back on topic..:
U have to pres THREE keys(lawl, 2 if u use consumables) on recharge well....nope this does not qualify as a hard build to use..I'm sure my 8 year old sister would be able to use this skill effectively...and maybe my dog, too....

S_Serpent · Dec 03, 2009, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hamsterarcher

I can see why some people want SF out, And why people wanted Ursan way out (mainly elitist players) but at the end of the day Ursan way and most SF team builds bring alot of people together playing side by side and completing areas for rewards. Now that Ursan is out, hardly anyone farms DoA, and with SF being nerfed too, Thats the VS farm gone, Uw + Fow, and then its back to... no you cant come in out group we need this class who has these skills and this title to come.

Gimmick builds help peole actually get into teams, rather than stopping them cus of lack of experiance,skills,titles ect.

I feel this game slowely dying out....Again

quoted for truth!!!!!!!!!! Time has proved this before!

Fay Vert · Dec 03, 2009, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Paladin X

And without perma-Shadow Form, what other builds that can safely farm raptors?

Is this a serious question or sarcasm?

ProX AcciaiO · Dec 03, 2009, 06:00 PM // 18:00

i hope that they will not nerf it completely..

Blobbob · Dec 03, 2009, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

Which is not the case for a typical godmode that is triggered by a cheatcode or a power up (FPS) etc.

Plenty of godmode cheats can still end in a "game over." Most platformer games will still end in you dieing if you do something stupid like fall off the world or get crushed by something.

BlackSephir · Dec 03, 2009, 06:36 PM // 18:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by S_Serpent

quoted for truth!!!!!!!!!! Time has proved this before!

Breaking news: if the game is alive only thanks to one broken skill then it's as alive as zombie.

Day Trooper · Dec 03, 2009, 09:58 PM // 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

Playing an area for 4 hours to receive like 10k if you're lucky is just not fun.

This is what makes me most nervous about the upcoming SF update

Yes, SF is overpowered and needs an update (mainly because only Sins can maintain it and thus are the only classes that can have god-mode) - but after the update I'll be peeved if elite areas can no longer be speed-cleared to some degree. That is my biggest concern really - as doing speed clear runs with 8 peeps in vent trying to get fastest times possible is hella fun to me

manitoba1073 · Dec 03, 2009, 10:18 PM // 22:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

Fixed.

Yeah and those are about 30% of the offensive skills in GW sure . Wait , someone threw your cheap words down better than me

If you take his posts as a joke , they actually are a little fun. Otherwise .... no , it cant be serious. I can sense his fear , he stopped throwing random % .... i would like to see his face when he counts skills ( yea , sure he is doing it lol ) and see that he is not even close.

Heres your count of skills that affect SF.
Warrior skills -11
Ranger skills - 24
(OH SNAP WEVE ALRDY PASSED YOUR CLAIM OF 18 SKILLS)
Monk skills - 19
Necro - 27
(STILL WANT ME TO CONTINUE? THATS 81 SKILLS SO FAR THAT HAVE AN EFFECT ON SF AND ONLY 4 PROFESSIONS)
Mesmer skills - 22
Ele - 38
Assasin - 11
Rit - 17
Para - 8
Derv - 24
(Thats 201 SKILLS RIGHT THERE ALONE AND I DIDNT COUNT THEM ALL)

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Are you serious?

Traps are not issue for perma, neither are PBAOEs.

UW features both of them. Yeah, you are totally right, charged blackness shocks permaes to death, they die in mountains traps and smite aoe owns them. Riiiiight.

Just because skill can affect perma does not mean it will actually work.

SO now you aggree the skill is not even close to being invincible. Yet they still affect SF.

w00t! · Dec 03, 2009, 10:27 PM // 22:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

are you sure its not because of gold? if ectos were 5gold per, you think players would care if sf could quick clear the underworld? or where ever?

If I have a build that could kill Juvenile Termites by one single button, you think players would care?

I'll clarify. For me, it's not about gold. As we all know, any GW gamer can get everything they need very easily. After a while, it's not about need, it's about want.

There are only two reasons to collect gold. 1) Buy titles (drunkard, sweet tooth, et cetera), or 2) Personal Vanity. But the funny thing is that farming existed well before titles. So I wonder what the real driving force is behind having money?

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

Orly now, Since when does entering UW,FoW or any other place has a pop up that says you must have SF to enter this area. It doesnt. SO once again nice BS exxageration.

Let's move from the theoretical to the practical. I'd be happy to meet you in ToA. I'll give you 2p for every SC team that advertises, you give me 1p for every balanced team that advertises. Heck the balance is probably more like 50:1, but we both know that it'd be a sucker bet.

Just because something is theoretically possible doesn't mean it's probable. Until you can prove otherwise, your statement above is utterly without merit.

w00t! · Dec 03, 2009, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Day Trooper

That is my biggest concern really - as doing speed clear runs with 8 peeps in vent trying to get fastest times possible is hella fun to me

That's the single best argument for SF and speed clearing I've seen. Namely, fun.

That said, I had tons of fun doing balanced DoA last night.

UnChosen · Dec 03, 2009, 11:15 PM // 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by w00t!

That's the single best argument for SF and speed clearing I've seen. Namely, fun.

That said, I had tons of fun doing balanced DoA last night.

But judging by the emptiness of DoA, I think its sufficient to say that you are the minority. Maybe if "balanced" pugs can get something close to 40k from their 4 hours instead of 10k then it might actually be worth it. The reality is that most people do end game areas for the loot, even if some of us only do it for fun. Of course, in an RPG, to a lot people getting worthwhile loot = fun....

Tenebrae · Dec 03, 2009, 11:39 PM // 23:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

Heres your count of skills that affect SF :
<Random numbers with no sense at all and even if they were true theres no way in hell that they are 30% of the offensive skills in game>

Yeah lets now say "affect" so your fake numbers and cheap words make some sense.

You are using a crap logic like "hey ! a knockdown shout affect SF lets count it down" . Cripple will also be taken as "affect" Eviscerate because a crippled warrior will have troubles using that elite on a moving foe but NO , its NOT a counter. All ppl clearly stated COUNTERS against SF , things that beat SF skill combo , not something that IN CERTAIN situation can bypass SF semi-god mode and do some damage/something to the perma.

A Pbaoe is NOT a counter to SF , it works against ALL prots ingame ( doing less or more damage ) so cut the crap please , you bluffed , i caught you and now you are out of place. My numbers are real and unlike yours , anyone can check them in wiki , only interrupts and spells that remove enchants that can bypass and BREAK SF combo COUNT as a counter .

- http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Encha...emoving_skills
- http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Interrupt

I said it and ill say it again , a Skill combo that only can be countered by less than 10% of the offensive skills is broken and all ppl knows it , thats why is abused. Another thing thats funny is like zwei2stein said :

"Just because skill can affect perma does not mean it will actually work."

We can talk and check so many skills but in the end the only skills and counters that matter are the ones INGAME ..... wich are even less than the number i gave before.

Golgotha · Dec 03, 2009, 11:48 PM // 23:48

I'm not sure why SF was allowed to get to this point in the UW (and let's be honest, this is the only reason it is an issue regardless of what anyone says). A single core skill can completely shut it down and make it completely worthless. Throw it on one or two monsters and it's game over for SF's dominance in UWSC's.

Martin Alvito · Dec 03, 2009, 11:56 PM // 23:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hamsterarcher

Gimmick builds help bad peole actually get into teams, rather than stopping them cus of lack of experiance,skills,titles ect.

Fixed it for you. Although even then the argument is false. If you want to play in a quality UWSC team, you have to grind up faction titles to maximize OP PvE skills. Ditto for Ursan back in the day; you had to grind Norn (and LB for DoA). Doing so confers advantage, and the best players expect that advantages are maximized. Gimmicks don't help with this problem; optimal PvE builds include grind-based PvE skills, gimmick or no.

Gimmicks make players bad by taking away incentives to improve. By leveling the playing field, gimmicks make it difficult to separate players by skill, and instead reward players by time invested. If you're young and bad at the game, I understand your desire for a gimmick. But I lack sympathy, because the game was always marketed as skill > time. I and many others would prefer that players seeking a game that solely rewards time investment grind elsewhere.

Label that attitude elitist if it makes you happy. But wanting to see effort and skill rewarded rather than time does not meet the definition of elitism. Skilled players are not skilled due to birthright. They're skilled due to effort and a focus on improvement.

AOD_EaSyKiLL · Dec 04, 2009, 12:37 AM // 00:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

Yeah lets now say "affect" so your fake numbers and cheap words make some sense.

You are using a crap logic like "hey ! a knockdown shout affect SF lets count it down" . Cripple will also be taken as "affect" Eviscerate because a crippled warrior will have troubles using that elite on a moving foe but NO , its NOT a counter. All ppl clearly stated COUNTERS against SF , things that beat SF skill combo , not something that IN CERTAIN situation can bypass SF semi-god mode and do some damage/something to the perma.

A Pbaoe is NOT a counter to SF , it works against ALL prots ingame ( doing less or more damage ) so cut the crap please , you bluffed , i caught you and now you are out of place. My numbers are real and unlike yours , anyone can check them in wiki , only interrupts and spells that remove enchants that can bypass and BREAK SF combo COUNT as a counter .

- http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Encha...emoving_skills
- http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Interrupt

I said it and ill say it again , a Skill combo that only can be countered by less than 10% of the offensive skills is broken and all ppl knows it , thats why is abused. Another thing thats funny is like zwei2stein said :

"Just because skill can affect perma does not mean it will actually work."

We can talk and check so many skills but in the end the only skills and counters that matter are the ones INGAME ..... wich are even less than the number i gave before.

OMG less than 10% of the skills can counter Frenzy/HealSig combo........Nerrrfffffff it! :P